Comments on: Whatever Will Be Will Be Again http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again Thu, 11 Mar 2010 09:13:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Holz Fallen http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15189 Holz Fallen Fri, 14 Nov 2008 14:17:41 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15189 What exactly should a concert be? I think it is perfectly logical to expect a small show at a bar to be different from a big arena concert. If fans so invested in an artist's music that they're willing to buy expensive tickets in advance, wait in line, tolerate the miserable behavior of people in crowds, deal with drunks, etc. is it really so unreasonable to think that the artist could find some kind of musical bridge from familiar material or performance styles to new, or put some thought into building a coherent total performance? Do the people who thought the show was amazing have any comments about the way the show itself was crafted, rather than about their general feeling about what artists are entitled to do? It's great if you particularly enjoy an 'unrecognizable' version of a song (though how you know you're hearing that song and not something new if it's unrecognizable is mysterious). But how does that fit in with the concept of the show as a whole? Correct me if I'm wrong, but Matthew, if you knew that the band was going to play material (any of it, hits or not) in a more familiar manner, then build up or branch out to newer, more challenging styles, would you feel less distressed? It seems that your argument is not really about the individual songs, about the construction of the entire experience as not being thoughtfully or deliberately crafted. What exactly should a concert be? I think it is perfectly logical to expect a small show at a bar to be different from a big arena concert. If fans so invested in an artist’s music that they’re willing to buy expensive tickets in advance, wait in line, tolerate the miserable behavior of people in crowds, deal with drunks, etc. is it really so unreasonable to think that the artist could find some kind of musical bridge from familiar material or performance styles to new, or put some thought into building a coherent total performance? Do the people who thought the show was amazing have any comments about the way the show itself was crafted, rather than about their general feeling about what artists are entitled to do? It’s great if you particularly enjoy an ‘unrecognizable’ version of a song (though how you know you’re hearing that song and not something new if it’s unrecognizable is mysterious). But how does that fit in with the concept of the show as a whole?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but Matthew, if you knew that the band was going to play material (any of it, hits or not) in a more familiar manner, then build up or branch out to newer, more challenging styles, would you feel less distressed? It seems that your argument is not really about the individual songs, about the construction of the entire experience as not being thoughtfully or deliberately crafted.

]]> By: Bob http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15187 Bob Wed, 12 Nov 2008 17:48:57 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15187 Wow, people are still expecting Smashing Pumpkins concerts to be good? Didn't we establish back in the 90s that they're the worst live band in America? That was my experience in 1994 and I don't know anybody who has seen them and felt differently. Wow, people are still expecting Smashing Pumpkins concerts to be good? Didn’t we establish back in the 90s that they’re the worst live band in America? That was my experience in 1994 and I don’t know anybody who has seen them and felt differently.

]]> By: Holmes http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15175 Holmes Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:35:53 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15175 Matt, I can understand your frustration with the band because I felt the same way, only it was about 8 years ago. I saw them on my 20th birthday in Lowell, MA on 4/29/2000 and it is still the worst show I have ever seen in my life. The same problems plagued the set: bad covers, not enough crowd favorites, boring endless prodding numbers, less-than-perfect new songs. I saw the band a few times in 1996 in Boston, Providence and Worcester and they were epic rock shows. But look at the 4/29/2000 setlist: * Pale Scales * Heavy Metal Machine * The Everlasting Gaze * Glass and the Ghost Children * Blew Away * Stand Inside Your Love * Blue Skies Bring Tears * I of the Mourning * To Sheila * Disarm * Try, Try, Try * Rock On [Essex] * Zero * Today * Tear * With Every Light * Bullet with Butterfly Wings > Once in a Lifetime [Talking Heads] Encore 1: * Blank Page * Cherub Rock Encore 2: * Drown The entire show was made worse by the fact that the band decided to play with their instruments tuned REALLY low...maybe to C? I couldn't tell, but it made for an awful concert. After that show, we all marched out the arena pretty defeated. I swore I would never go to a SP after that, and I still have kept that promise. Matt, I can understand your frustration with the band because I felt the same way, only it was about 8 years ago. I saw them on my 20th birthday in Lowell, MA on 4/29/2000 and it is still the worst show I have ever seen in my life.

The same problems plagued the set: bad covers, not enough crowd favorites, boring endless prodding numbers, less-than-perfect new songs. I saw the band a few times in 1996 in Boston, Providence and Worcester and they were epic rock shows. But look at the 4/29/2000 setlist:

* Pale Scales
* Heavy Metal Machine
* The Everlasting Gaze
* Glass and the Ghost Children
* Blew Away
* Stand Inside Your Love
* Blue Skies Bring Tears
* I of the Mourning
* To Sheila
* Disarm
* Try, Try, Try
* Rock On [Essex]
* Zero
* Today
* Tear
* With Every Light
* Bullet with Butterfly Wings
> Once in a Lifetime [Talking Heads]
Encore 1:
* Blank Page
* Cherub Rock
Encore 2:
* Drown

The entire show was made worse by the fact that the band decided to play with their instruments tuned REALLY low…maybe to C? I couldn’t tell, but it made for an awful concert. After that show, we all marched out the arena pretty defeated. I swore I would never go to a SP after that, and I still have kept that promise.

]]> By: JMG http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15174 JMG Tue, 11 Nov 2008 15:19:09 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15174 Upon hearing some of those bootlegs from the Gish shows Steve, I totally agree with you. As for the ego issue, realistically that was before Siamese Dream. Maybe not as big, but read some of their interviews from back then. It has always been there. Upon hearing some of those bootlegs from the Gish shows Steve, I totally agree with you.

As for the ego issue, realistically that was before Siamese Dream. Maybe not as big, but read some of their interviews from back then. It has always been there.

]]> By: steve http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15166 steve Tue, 11 Nov 2008 13:08:09 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15166 Matt, I was much older than a teenager when Gish came out, and as someone who saw the band on a few of those original lineup tours, you weren't missing a damn thing. I rarely saw Corgan ever sing in key and Iha and D'Acry were passbale at best. As someone who was a fan through (and including) Adore, this was always a sore point for me. And being someone who had to deal with Corgan on the label side of things, he's has had a huge ego problem since Siamese Dream debuted in the Top 10. That being said, one time I thought I might pass out with joy when they did a majestic version of "Drown." Matt, I was much older than a teenager when Gish came out, and as someone who saw the band on a few of those original lineup tours, you weren’t missing a damn thing. I rarely saw Corgan ever sing in key and Iha and D’Acry were passbale at best. As someone who was a fan through (and including) Adore, this was always a sore point for me. And being someone who had to deal with Corgan on the label side of things, he’s has had a huge ego problem since Siamese Dream debuted in the Top 10.

That being said, one time I thought I might pass out with joy when they did a majestic version of “Drown.”

]]> By: JMG http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15159 JMG Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:52:33 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15159 I've heard enough bad shows on tape that I thought sucked in person and have seen enough good shows in person which I found were also good on tape to know the difference Matt. and in response to the guy above, I saw a couple shows in 2000 from the Machina shows and the majority of the ones with Auf der Maur were really sloppy. And you know what? I attribute more of that to Iha than I would to Auf der Maur. I was 13 at the time and what I remember distinctly is a lot of people saying that Iha look absolutely checked out and that he was playing like he was checked out. I’ve heard enough bad shows on tape that I thought sucked in person and have seen enough good shows in person which I found were also good on tape to know the difference Matt.

and in response to the guy above, I saw a couple shows in 2000 from the Machina shows and the majority of the ones with Auf der Maur were really sloppy. And you know what? I attribute more of that to Iha than I would to Auf der Maur. I was 13 at the time and what I remember distinctly is a lot of people saying that Iha look absolutely checked out and that he was playing like he was checked out.

]]> By: Matthew Perpetua http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15156 Matthew Perpetua Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:43:26 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15156 JMG, I did not know that about "I Am One Part Two." Or maybe I read it at some point in the past and just forgot? Either way. I think listening to live recordings of these shows is probably a much better experience than watching them in person -- you can kinda tune out/zone out on the jams, or just flick through them. More physical comfort, more leeway. In a concert hall, it can just get totally tedious, and you can feel antsy or bored or disengaged. JMG, I did not know that about “I Am One Part Two.” Or maybe I read it at some point in the past and just forgot? Either way.

I think listening to live recordings of these shows is probably a much better experience than watching them in person — you can kinda tune out/zone out on the jams, or just flick through them. More physical comfort, more leeway. In a concert hall, it can just get totally tedious, and you can feel antsy or bored or disengaged.

]]> By: Mike http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15155 Mike Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:37:14 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15155 Hey. I was there on Friday and agree with your take on the show. I'll just say that I feel very lucky to have been able to see the band multiple times with the original lineup and then the lineup after Auf Der Maur had replaced D'Arcy. I've quoted and linked to your review in mine, here: http://TheMusic.FM/2008.11.10/smashing-pumpkins-united-palace-2-review-downloads-photos-video Hey. I was there on Friday and agree with your take on the show. I’ll just say that I feel very lucky to have been able to see the band multiple times with the original lineup and then the lineup after Auf Der Maur had replaced D’Arcy.

I’ve quoted and linked to your review in mine, here:
http://TheMusic.FM/2008.11.10/smashing-pumpkins-united-palace-2-review-downloads-photos-video

]]> By: JMG http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15154 JMG Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:26:28 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15154 If you want the MP3 of it I could post it on a link here. Back in 1989 they did it acoustically. If you want the MP3 of it I could post it on a link here. Back in 1989 they did it acoustically.

]]> By: JMG http://www.fluxblog.org/2008/11/whatever-will-be-will-be-again#comment-15153 JMG Tue, 11 Nov 2008 02:21:40 +0000 http://www.fluxblog.org/?p=1911#comment-15153 "I would say that with the exception of the variations on “I am One” and “Heavy Metal Machine,” Corgan’s impulses in the way to perform the older material in both nights was pretty right on." Matt, it wasn't "I Am One" reworked, "I Am One pt. 2" is an actual song that has been kicking around the bootleg circles since 1989. Actually, "I Am One pt. 2" has not been performed live until this tour. http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/song.html?song_id=77&song_type=-1 p.s. I'm a relatively young fan (22) and I didn't get to see them in the 90s and I've heard the bootlegs from both NYC shows. Was not disappointed with them. Then again, I'm used to the long jams, weird medleys and not the populist side of the band. “I would say that with the exception of the variations on “I am One” and “Heavy Metal Machine,” Corgan’s impulses in the way to perform the older material in both nights was pretty right on.”

Matt, it wasn’t “I Am One” reworked, “I Am One pt. 2″ is an actual song that has been kicking around the bootleg circles since 1989. Actually, “I Am One pt. 2″ has not been performed live until this tour.

http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/song.html?song_id=77&song_type=-1

p.s. I’m a relatively young fan (22) and I didn’t get to see them in the 90s and I’ve heard the bootlegs from both NYC shows. Was not disappointed with them. Then again, I’m used to the long jams, weird medleys and not the populist side of the band.

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