November 7th, 2008 11:11am
One Last Trip To Hell
The Smashing Pumpkins @ United Palace 11/6/2008 (Black Sunshine)
Roctopus / Everybody Come Clap Your Hands / Tarantula / G.L.O.W. / Siva / Eye / Mayonaise / Tonight, Tonight / Speed Kills / Transformer / Superchrist / United States / Once Upon A Time / Again, Again, Again (The Crux) / The Rose March / Today / Bullet With Butterfly Wings / The Beginning Is The End Is The Beginning / Heavy Metal Machine (horrible new version) / Glass’ Theme / Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun // We Only Come Out At Night / Everything Is Beautiful
The Smashing Pumpkins “Superchrist”
At the end of this concert, Billy Corgan put himself in the mind of his audience and wondered aloud: “Did I pay for this shit?” He was, of course, mocking us, but that was very much the consensus opinion of the few thousand bitter, heartbroken fans who exited the United Palace theater as if on a death march. Really, how else were people supposed to feel about a two and a half hour show that mostly emphasized new material, generally avoided old classics, and included at least 40 minutes of formless prog-metal dirges and artless, atonal drones?
I want to make something clear: I don’t mind the Smashing Pumpkins playing new songs. That is totally fine, as they are a living band who still put out records, and it is their prerogative to perform recent material. In fact, some of the new tunes ended up being highlights of this show — “G.L.O.W.” is a good, catchy rocker, and “Superchrist” is by far the most successful and enjoyable product of the band’s recent fixation on over-the-top prog metal. I can’t say I love “The Rose March” or “The Crux,” but they are nice enough, and I don’t think anyone was bothered to hear them in the acoustic mini-set, though, you know, I think most everyone would’ve preferred to hear, say, “Thirty-Three” or “Muzzle” or “To Sheila” or…you know, the list goes on and on.
These are the big problems with this concert:
1) Not enough non-hit oldies. Yes, we got to see them play “Tonight, Tonight,” “Today,” “Bullet With Butterfly Wings” and “Siva,” but that amounts to a very small chunk of the actual set time, and the versions were somewhat rote. “Mayonaise” was the only song in the show that really qualified as a major fan-favorite, which is pretty ridiculous when you look at setlists from other legs of their tour in which the band leaned hard on a variety of classics that would thrill casual and hardcore fans alike. The band has not performed in New York City for nine years, and made New York fans wait a year and a half for a concert following the group’s reformation. It’s rather unfair of them to finally make the time to come to the biggest city in the country and kinda dick us over, especially when a good chunk of the audience were people like myself and my friend Bryan who had never had the opportunity to see a Smashing Pumpkins show before despite being fans for over fifteen years.
2) The new version of “Heavy Metal Machine” and their cover of “Set The Controls For The Heart Of The Sun” are just flat-out awful. “Heavy Metal Machine,” which is a pretty good tune in its original incarnation from Machina, has been transformed into a chugging, tuneless, seemingly endless dirge that excises virtually every appealing element of the song. “Set The Controls…” starts out as a vaguely intriguing take on the Pink Floyd song, but ends up becoming an interminable bore that marries the absolute worst of prog theatrics with the most tedious elements of art-noise. Both are cases of Corgan abandoning his strengths and embracing his most questionable impulses. These are the sort of things that may be fun to play in a rehearsal room, but translate poorly in front of an audience. Corgan is convinced that what he’s doing in these selections is art, but the problem is, it’s not at all successful art. It’s tacky and boring and not aesthetically or technically interesting. It’s just self-indulgent, and lacking in showmanship or tact. I cannot overstate just how much these two songs ruined this show — if they had simply not performed them, the show would’ve been just sorta okay. If they had omitted them and replaced them with a few songs regularly performed in previous legs of the tour such as “Starla,” “Drown,” “Where Boys Fear To Tread,” “Porcelina of the Vast Oceans,” “Hummer,” or “Set The Ray To Jerry,” the show could’ve actually been pretty good.
3) Now, it’s bad enough to subject your audience to about 40 minutes of abrasive, deliberately off-putting music, but it’s even more uncool to come back for an encore that mocks them for not being 100% with you, and feeling disappointed for not hearing more of what they expected to hear from a show billed as a 20th anniversary concert. In conventional show biz logic, if you’re going to go that far, you should at least leave the audience with a crowd-pleaser. In Billy Corgan logic, you come out and perform one of the lesser songs from your best-selling album, and then finish off with a song that mixes disingenuous hippy-dippy “everyone is beautiful!” lyrics with improvised sarcastic rants that outright diss the city you’re playing in, mock the fans for paying to see your band, and tell your visibly disappointed audience that you’ll see them in hell. It was full-on douche-tastic passive-aggression. It’s as if he set out to do this heel turn, and purposefully alienate as much of the audience as possible. Well, it worked. Believe me, unless you’ve witnessed other shows on this tour, it’s unlikely you’ve seen a more defeated audience exit from a rock show.
So here’s the thing: This is the first of a two-night stand, and tonight will be a totally different concert, with no repeated songs. Since this is exactly the same setlist as the first night of a similar deal in Toronto earlier this week, we are almost certain to see this setlist tonight. It’s not perfect, but it’s much closer to what I’d want to see in terms of song selection. Let’s just hope he doesn’t fuck this one up too, okay?
Buy it from iTunes.
11/7/08 11:22 am
Whoa. Billy Corgan in douchebag SHOCKER!
Seriously, though, that stinks. I know how much you were looking forward to this.
11/7/08 12:56 pm
Wow - glad I didn’t shell out the bucks for this one (I was considering it at one point). So disappointing, hope tonight’s show is better if you give Corgan another chance…
11/7/08 2:15 pm
I saw them once in 1995 and once in 1996 and I was in full-on Pumpkins fanatic mode. Both shows were amazing (at that point the setlists couldn’t yet be bad), but Billy was an ass and seemed dismissive to the audience. At the height of their superstardom it seemed more acceptable, but still left a bad taste in my mouth. At this point, such moves are pretty much unacceptable.
11/7/08 2:24 pm
I think my friend Chris is right about Billy: Regardless of his talent, he is just TERRIBLE at being the leader of a rock band.
11/7/08 4:52 pm
Holy $hit~ I Just Read About You & The Fact That You Are The Pioneer Who Blazed The Trails That Everyone Likes To Tread Or Stumble Down Daily. I HAVE OFFICIALLY READ MY FIRST BLOG WRITTEN BY MATTHEW PERPETUA & MY MIND IS FN BLOWN - I HAVE NEVER READ SOMEONE REVIEW A CONCERT IN SUCH GRAND, MAGNIFICENT, PRECISE & MELLON COLLIE-ESQUE FASHION~ Speaking Of The Opposite Of Infinite Sadness, When Mellon Collie Came Out, Smashing Pumpkins Were My Favorite Band In The Universe & Every Penny I Earned By Mowing Lawns Went Into Buying Another EP / SINGLE / IMPORT / REPEAT / ETC!| I Had One Of Those Plastic Towers Filled With Every Piece Of Billy Corgan (Circa: 89-96) That Was Available For My Adoring Teenage Hands. I Was So Proud Of That CD Tower~ As The Next Decade Wore On, I Saw The Band Melt Into Thick Air Starting With A Memory Of Corgan, Iha & D’arcy Sitting In A MTV Newsroom To Report That Jimmy Chamberlain Was Being Kicked Out Of The Band Because He Happened To Be Involved With The Tragic July 11th, 2006 Death Of Keyboardist Jonathan Melvoin Where Both Of Them Overdosed On Heroin & Chamberlain Happened To Live, So Corgan Gave Him The Boot & Got Matt Walker To Play Drums & A Different Touring Keyboardist, Dennis To Jump Into The Circus~ In My Opinion, That Is When The End Of The Beginning Of The End Of Smashing Pumpkins Began - Interestingly Enough, They Slapped The Same Title To Their New Song For The Batman & Robin Soundtrack And I Think Won A Grammy For It~ That Song Literally Felt To Me Like It Was 5+ Years After Mellon Collie, But It Was Close Enough For The Music Industry Jury To #1 - Make Up For The HUGE Mistake Of Only Giving Corgan & Co. 1 / ONE / UNO GRAMMY AWARD FOR MELLON COLLIE & THE INFINITE SADNESS Which Just So Happened To Go Somewhere Around DECADE X PLATINUM
( I Apologize For Making Up Shit & Trying To Impress The Man Who Just Shattered The Reasoning That I Was OK CPU With Just One Concert Review, Ultimately Helping The Decider Point Out That As A Writer +/- Blogger +/- Artist = I Am More PABLO HONEY)
Oh & #2 - I Remember Even Before Legally Being An “Adult” I Thought “Damn, I Wonder If They Just Feel Bad For The Whole Pumpkins Situation Because That Movie Sucked Rubber Nipples~!!” SO - This Is Getting Pathetic Now, Long Story Short = Billy Corgan Went On RECORD SAYING THAT ALL SOUND YOU HEAR ON ANY SMASHING PUMPKINS RECORD YOU HAVE EVER HEARD IS 97% BILLY & JIMMY = SO BILLY, WHAT THE F#CK MAN>>?! NO ONE TO BLAME BECAUSE YOU HAD TO RUN YOUR MOUTH & CLAIM THAT ABSOLUTE NON$ENSE = I GUESS BUTCH VIG (S.D) & FLOOD + ALAN MOULDER (M.C) AS PRODUCERS OR THE FN ORCHESTRAS THAT WERE INVOLVED IN YOUR EPIC ALBUMS ONLY ACCOUNT FOR 3% OF SOUND- I Feel Bad For Them (Well, Him: Jimmy) Because It Didn’t Have To Be This Way, I Remember Vieuphoria On VHS & Watching Billy Tear The $hit Out Of Soma Over & Over~!! I Could Identify Because I Grew Up In Chicago & Moved To St. Petersburg, FL & Unfortunately, My Best Friend & His Older Brother From 3 Years Old In Chicago Hung Themselves In Front Of Their Mom’s Workplace - Now, Unfortunately, I Am Basically In The Same Mind Frame As Billy Was When He Wrote “Today” (If That Is True, I Was Always Skeptical) BUT - I WOULD GLADLY TRADE A GOOD PORTION OF MY LIFE FOR WHAT YOU ACCOMPLISHED IN THAT 5 YEAR SPAN - NO MATTER WHAT ALL THE HATERS HAVE ALWAYS SAID: YOU WERE FUCKING BAD A$$ ON THOSE ALBUMS & IN THE MASSIVE AUDITORIUM YOU FILLED IN 1996 WITH BUTCH VIG & GARBAGE OPENING FOR YOU~
Damn: While I Was Just Double Checking To See I Wasn’t Old Enough To Drive When The Pumpkins Were Last Here, I Found An Interesting Review Of A Show That They Apparently Played Close By Me In August - A Couple Of Assessments From Sean Daly, “as the 41-year-old former voice of his generation continued working out his demons for those who still care..” “Corgan and his crew, including original drummer Jimmy Chamberlin, made two-plus hours of noise akin to a 747 landing on your lanai.”
He seemed to enjoy G.L.O.W as well - I just typed all of that With The First Letter Of Every Word Capitalized~ Damn, I Guess I’m Not Their #1 Fan Anymore, But At Least The Next Best Thing To A Teenager’s Favorite Rock Band Is = A Man In His 20’s (FL)VOTE Actually Counting To Help Elect The 44TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES = BARACK OBAMA - Who Just So Happens To Be From “The City By The Lake, The Place Where I Was Born.”
In case you couldn’t tell Sir, your work is very inspiring! I hope to one day live off of my complex insanity = my mind either through my music or my unhealthy love for music. I look forward to reading about tonight’s show - Starla + Porcelina Of The Vast Oceans + Soma + Rhinoceros + Cherub Rock + Hopefully Some Of The Last Tracks On Siamese Dream Or Either Disc Of Mellon Collie Should Help Make Up A Stellar Night Compared To Last Night.
Damn Those Caps~
Thank You Mr. Perpetua~ You Are One Of The Figures Responsible For The Creation Of A Reality That I Can Dream About Belonging / Mattering : iN / To.
MERCi.
KNiFA
11/7/08 5:17 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhb5o3tfwv0
How can this version of “Heavy Metal Machine” possibly qualify as “formless”? Because, you see…I know how it goes. I know all the parts. (They’ve been playing it in this arrangement for over a year.) A formless dirge, by definition, doesn’t “go” in a particular way.
http://hipstersunited.com/blog/archives/2008/10/set-the-birdcalls-for-the-heart-of-the-song.html
Again, same questions with the Pink Floyd cover. It is more-or-less completely worked out and is played more-or-less the same way every night. I know how it goes, and so would anyone who’d heard it more than once. You don’t have to like it, but it is decidedly not “formless”.
11/7/08 7:54 pm
[...] their photographer Chris a hard time. He said Fluxblog was super-critical last night.” That’s true — and Matthew “Fluxblog” Perpetua even went so far as to describe Jill’s [...]
11/7/08 10:13 pm
Sorry Corgan didn’t spoon feed you a palatable show. Next time the Foo Fighters are in town see them instead. You know the setlist you’ll get. You’ll know they’ll never go off script. A NICE PREDICTABLE SHOW.
11/8/08 12:39 am
[...] takes digs at some boobirds and the Yankees at the Smashing Pumpkins’ NYC show. Reviews are mixed. That video on Fluxblog is worth the time. • I remember the original Koo’s. Now it’s [...]
11/8/08 12:45 am
CL, for one thing, “they’ll never go off the script” is a very funny thing to say about a band that is currently a total slave to its setlist and has been playing the same shows in every city, with virtually no spur of the moment changes.
And you know, I’m not asking for Corgan to ONLY play hits. It’s just, you know, don’t play these totally awful and masturbatory time-suck songs when you’ve got this amazing catalog of material spanning 20 years, and you’re playing to an audience of people mostly comprised of people who have not seen you’re band in at least nine years. The second night was a much better compromise — the far better oldies selection made the more questionable things later in the show easier to take.
Also, I’m pretty sure Foo Fighters would play a decent show. I saw them once back around the time Colour and the Shape came out, and it was a fun rocking set.
11/8/08 1:01 am
basically, i saw the same set list in toronto, and it was a fantastic show. probably the best show ive seen in all my life (and ive been to dozens upon dozens of concerts). anyway, as a true smashing pumpkins fan, i can tell you that this was a great set list, and to knock it because he didnt play Cherub Rock and 1979 makes you a complete douchebag. If thats what you wanted to hear, you should have stayed home and listened to the Greatest Hits cd…
11/8/08 10:17 am
Listen, I’m not doubting that you and some people genuinely loved what you heard. I just find it completely ridiculous that anyone would get angry about other fans being let down by these current excesses, and be like “oh, you just want to hear the hits!” Well, duh! Most anybody buying a ticket wants to hear the old classics, of which there are at least a 150! The proportion of people who love Gish/Siamese/Pisces/MCIS/etc vastly outnumber the small portion of the audience that follows the band around and is actively invested in material that hasn’t even been released yet. But still, you have this incredibly small and vocal number of “true fans” who, honestly, just seem deeply uncritical and weirdly hostile to the band’s best work, which undoubtedly falls between the years of 1991 and 1997.
But if you read what I wrote, you would notice that my criticism isn’t that I have a problem with the band playing new material, but more that the pacing and proportion was off, and that while the group had been playing balanced, pretty kickass setlists ALL AROUND THE GLOBE, when it came time to come around to New York, they opted to spite a majority of the audience. Look, some of you may follow the band around, and some of you may be apologists for whatever Corgan does, and that’s okay, I guess, but the lack of empathy for the majority of the audience is sorta ridiculous and selfish, and feeds into Corgan’s worst impulses as an artist.
11/8/08 11:47 am
This post made me a first time commenter. I was at the first night in Toronto and I can’t agree more with Matthew (though my pumpkins fan-hood is closer to his than it is to some of the diehards commenting here). The final 40 minutes of this show were just unforgivable. In Toronto the band threw a few bars of “Tom Sawyer” into Heavy Metal. “Set the controls…” was just awful. But OK diehards: For the sake of argument I’ll give you those two and chalk it up to taste/drugs. What I want is for you to justify the 15 minute “Everything is Beautiful”/rant-at-the-audience. How does Corgan earn that, and how is it rewarding let alone not insulting to the audience?
11/8/08 12:32 pm
A-train’s question essentially sums up a lot of what I would write in response here. BC has always been a dude on his own path, following his own vision, which beginning in roughly 98 became more and more obscure. Fine, great. Adore was a big departure but I love it, I think The Future Embrace is underrated etc. The thing I wonder is why is he continues to be so fucking hostile to people who haven’t stayed with him? Again, this aggression goes back about a decade now. Plenty of great artists make the art they want to make, stay true to their vision, and if you like it that’s great, if you don’t, well, whatever. BC’s thing is, IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT I’VE JUST PLAYED FOR YOU FUCK YOU, OH BY THE WAY I LOVE THAT SONG YOU WROTE, I THINK IT WAS CALLED GET YOUR DICK OUT OF MY ASS AND SHOVE IT IN MY MOUTH (for those of you not there last night, this last bit was something he said on stage to a dude who told him to his face the Thursday night show sucked). So yeah, I don’t get that endless hostility.
11/8/08 12:53 pm
“Also, I’m pretty sure Foo Fighters would play a decent show. I saw them once back around the time Colour and the Shape came out, and it was a fun rocking set.”
You do realize that was over 10 years ago and they’ve made watered down versions of Color and Shape ever since, right?
And when I say “go off script” I mean not feeding into show business crowd pleasing. So fine, they’re playing mostly the same set, but if they were playing what you wanted them to play that would make for one un-challenging show. That’s what the Pixies tour was. I kind of relish the fact that Corgan is difficult. When I go to a rock show, it should be weird, over the top, and an un-nostalgic affair.
“I guess, but the lack of empathy for the majority of the audience is sorta ridiculous and selfish, and feeds into Corgan’s worst impulses as an artist.”
Fine, I’m selfish. That said, you should have given me your comp ticket. You knew the songs, but you sure as hell didn’t know the group.
11/8/08 2:29 pm
Okay, for one thing, I did NOT get a comp ticket. I paid for these shows, which adds to some of my annoyance because I am currently BROKE.
And you know what, I DO know this group, inside and out. That’s why this was a disappointing thing — I was hoping for Corgan’s best impulses, and I mostly got his worst. Being a fan is NOT about just blindly loving ever little thing they do. I assure you that I’ve got a lot more tied up in that band that you think, and I guarantee you that I’ve given Corgan’s entire body of work far more thought that you have.
I don’t know why you think the artist’s job is to torment the audience! Or that pleasure is somehow bad, or that it’s somehow lame and despicable when an artist/performer is aware of their strengths and plays to them instead of rebelling against their instinct and talent. Frankly, I think you’re being extraordinarily dumb and weirdly anti-art. I’m sorry, but the Pixies totally killed it on their reunion tour. I don’t know how anyone could enjoy that band and not walk away from those shows being entirely satisfied. If Corgan was being “challenging” but also doing great things, that would be different. But what you’re calling “challenging” is total hackwork.
Maybe it’s time to give up on the popular bands and move on to Wolf Eyes and Merzbow, man. Those guys will never let you down with, you know, melody and structure and discipline.
11/8/08 2:42 pm
“Maybe it’s time to give up on the popular bands and move on to Wolf Eyes and Merzbow, man. Those guys will never let you down with, you know, melody and structure and discipline.”
And now you’re making no sense because the Pumpkins are technically a “popular” band and I still like them.
“Frankly, I think you’re being extraordinarily dumb and weirdly anti-art. I’m sorry, but the Pixies totally killed it on their reunion tour.”
Define Art. Are you talking about craftsmanship by someone who can make a good scenery, the people who look at the scenery in a weird way, or the ones where you look and you either hate it, love it, or just honestly intrigued by it? There are many definitions of what you call art. For instance, I think you believe paint by numbers is art.
Pixies: They played the hits. If you like that, fine, but to me it’s pretty fuckin’ lazy.
11/8/08 2:59 pm
Well, you seem to despise the elements of the band that are popular, so.
Yeah, it’s soooooooooo lazy to do what you do best, and to do it very well. What would you WANT the Pixies to do? There seems to be a real limit to what a Pixies show could be, you know? Did you want them to do a 30 minute noise piece too?
It’s much much much lazier to NOT make an effort to meet your audience halfway. It’s much much much lazier to NOT play demanding, well-constructed songs in favor of lengthy, masturbatory songs that just sorta drone on, or rely on uninteresting guitar parts paired with Jimmy doing rather unimaginative and rote (for him) bum-ba-dum-da-dum faux-tribal drumming. One of the worst things about these shows was how in most of the new material/covers, Jimmy’s immense talent was just sorta wasted on these ostentatious parts that required technical skill, but de-emphasized the nuance that made his work in the past so brilliant.
11/8/08 7:21 pm
hey, I just watched that vid of Corgan ragging on the audience a bit. Kind of reminded me of a twisted vaudeville act…..pretty funny actually. I could see why you were pissed off but I kind of dig how he’s poking the audience a bit.
11/8/08 7:25 pm
“Yeah, it’s soooooooooo lazy to do what you do best, and to do it very well. What would you WANT the Pixies to do? There seems to be a real limit to what a Pixies show could be, you know? Did you want them to do a 30 minute noise piece too?”
There is never a limit. There’s only what YOU want.
And it was lazy. They played the hits. I didn’t want a hits band, I wanted the Pixies.
11/9/08 2:35 am
Okay, but at what point in the Pixies history did they ever do anything but play their songs in a straightforward manner, which an emphasis on crowd pleasers? They never did! So, uh, you got the Pixies. If they went out and did something different, you would not be getting the Pixies.
So your logic is, what, exactly? That the only way to be cool and edgy and “real” is to not play the songs you’ve written and presumably like, and to deliberately try to aggravate your fans by doing some sort of bait and switch?
11/9/08 9:44 am
“So your logic is, what, exactly? That the only way to be cool and edgy and “real” is to not play the songs you’ve written and presumably like, and to deliberately try to aggravate your fans by doing some sort of bait and switch?”
No, it’s about challenging the audience and not watching people on stage phone in the hits you want.
This again goes back to me saying that you should have stayed at home and listened to the albums if that was all you wanted.
11/9/08 3:37 pm
Matthew: “But still, you have this incredibly small and vocal number of ‘true fans’ who, honestly, just seem deeply uncritical and weirdly hostile to the band’s best work, which undoubtedly falls between the years of 1991 and 1997.”
Those of us who have seen this band a number of times are tired of hearing the hit singles in concert, and we’re going to ask for what we want just as much as you ask for what you want. That doesn’t make us “hostile” to the old music; it means we were there already, we consider it tired and we want something fresh. Are you really not yet over “Today” or not yet over “Starla”? They aren’t beaten through your mind to the point at which they stop working some of their magic? Twenty, 100 listens to a song and you kind of get it, right? (Speaking of which, nothing is sadder than watching 30-somethings actually moshing to Bullet with Butterfly Wings on this tour. As a friend of mine says, it’s like watching dogs responding to Pavlov.)
I used to go see this band back around Mellon Collie…I was there, then, and I am sorry for you if you were not. But today is not then, and if Billy isn’t feeling some of the old music right now, then it’s going to suck if he plays it anyway. I would rather see Billy into what he’s playing — whatever it is — rather than to watch him mime a jukebox. But, see, I think he DOES meet the fans halfway — as I think half of the setlist testifies — you and I may just have a disagreement on where the 50-yard line lies.
So, I would be, yes, deeply critical of what Corgan were doing if he were going through the motions. So, yes, I am content to see him play what he’s into right now. He’s the musical talent, I’m not. I do have tolerance and acceptance and patience for him. I to some extent submit to his judgment. He’s proven beyond much doubt to me that he knows what he’s doing. Sometimes he is experimenting or investing in developing something new. I’m sure he often doesn’t know what the audience reaction is going to be. But I am sure he likes playing the stuff he does play, old and new, and that’s more than I can say for a lot of concert acts. I like pop music, I don’t necessarily go for everything Billy trots out at a show, but I respect his process and I respect that he gets himself off and hopes that it works for some of us too.
Lastly, I don’t think you know what you pretend to know about Pumpkins fans who enjoy (at least some of) the new material. The Pink Floyd cover gets trashed far more on Pumpkins boards than it’s praised; the new song that’s gotten the most huzzahs that I’ve seen is “A Song for a Son” (which you didn’t bother to comment on). What Corgan’s longterm fanbase has about them is a belief that he’s a special talent and his music is always worth a fair listen. Are there a few people who convince themselves that they love every last note he plays? Of course, but that’s not unique to the Pumpkins’ fanbase, every band has a few fans like that. Radiohead, for one, has far more fans like that then the Pumpkins do. The difference, of course, is that those Radiohead fans all founded music-crit websites…
11/10/08 9:52 am
Man, I just hate this smug attitude of “hey, we saw the songs back then, fuck you people who didn’t get a chance.” I’m sorry, but every artist should be taking into account that any show they do will be a lot of people’s first experience with the band. The second show, I definitely felt like there was a balance of giving a taste of everything and playing some of their best songs, and leaving a lot of room for new material. That was a fair show; the first night was not.
Also, the Corgan apologists keep missing this crucial point: the band was playing pretty hot setlists for a long time on this tour, but when it came time to FINALLY play the biggest city in the United States, they went with a really poorly selected setlist for the first night. If they had been playing this sort of show for the entirety of the Zeitgeist touring era, it wouldn’t have been so totally disappointing.
Also, fuck you, “Starla” is one of my favorite songs and even if you’re jaded by it, it would be meaningful to me and a lot of other people to see it performed live. That goes for a lot of songs. It has nothing to do with having heard the song a bunch of times! If anything, that just adds to it — those sort of magical moments at concerts often come from having that deep emotional attachment connect with seeing the performers, and having this communal experience with other fans. Just playing the recording at home is NOT the same experience!
You know, as much as I like Billy Corgan, I don’t think he’s really done much since around 1997 for me to give him the benefit of the doubt all the time. He’s just piled on so many poor decisions, and even if good music has come out of all the different eras — except maybe TheFutureEmbrace — it seems increasingly accidental, just this by-product of a natural talent that’s been sidetracked by bad taste and poor judgment.
“A Song For A Son” — that was okay, but it just felt hollow. Big and empty.
Man, Radiohead — what a totally different band from the Pumpkins. That’s a band who a) are extremely disciplined songwriters and musicians and b) play very accessible concerts despite their reputation for being arty and weird.
11/10/08 10:03 am
Yeah, I think it’s easy for fans to miss the communal experience of live shows because so much of your experience with the band is on an at-home basis. Going to a show becomes more like hearing a new bootleg for the first time than having a shared moment with other people who like the same things you do.
11/10/08 6:42 pm
I think everyone has to acknowledge just how much, beyond Billy Corgan’s continual descent into musical excess, his vain and disgusting interpretation of a rockist anti-hero has perpetually overshadowed any of his music, which hasn’t justified his hackneyed swagger in over a decade. He’s still the same petty bully who blew his top over Stephen Malkmus’s supposed Pumpkins “diss” on “Range Life” and whine about how “nobody wakes up in the morning humming a Pavement song” (so much for Corgan The Anti-Chart-Pop-Rebel). It’s the same jerk who followed the release of his most popular album with arena performances that featured interminable noise “jams” and snide taunts at the rows of audience members who walked out? (anyone “who was there” make it to any of those abysmal Mellon Collie shows like I did?). It’s the same douche bag who wanted to have his cake and eat it too by releasing a “solo” album even after claiming that his main gig was a glorified solo project itself!
Pumpkins fans need to own up to the fact that Corgan’s pointlessly insulting and antagonistic personality has long been biggest liability at his shows and for his band in general. I honestly feel sorry for anyone who shares Billy Corgan’s ridiculous, cliched vision of what rock stardom ought to be.
11/10/08 7:42 pm
Starla is one of my all time favorite songs as well, by any band.
11/10/08 9:43 pm
Matt, it’s not smug attitudes. The fans just get tired of hearing the same stuff over and over again. For instance, I wish they wouldn’t play “Bullet” or “Today” or maybe even “Tonight Tonight” because a lot of other great songs get the shaft for the fans that have only seen the videos. I’d rather have them play either a)one of their new acoustic numbers (I like that side of the band) or b) Glynis because it hasn’t been played in a really, really long time. When I heard that “I Am One pt. 2″ was being played, I was floored because they NEVER have played that live and it has been kicking around since 1989. Curse at fans like me all you want, but I’m happy that they’re not playing an oldies set list.
And as for Corgan’s personality……….he’s in a band I happen to like, I don’t have to like him. I’m not his spouse, friend, family, etc and neither are you. You take things way too personally. All of these guys are pricks in one way or another.
11/10/08 9:46 pm
“Also, the Corgan apologists keep missing this crucial point: the band was playing pretty hot setlists for a long time on this tour, but when it came time to FINALLY play the biggest city in the United States, they went with a really poorly selected setlist for the first night.”
Very interesting that you say that given that they played the exact same set in Canada prior to NYC’s set of shows and they played a condensed version of this setlist in Ohio on the start of this tour.
Also, NYC….fine, it’s big. Who cares?
11/10/08 11:33 pm
Well, they did play in Toronto and Columbus, Ohio in 2007, so the fans there had seen them do more balanced sets not long ago. These setlists are okay I guess if you’re a band who comes through town all the time, but if it’s your first time playing a city in a loooooong time, it’s a terrible strategy! Obviously, at least at the beginning of the Zeitgeist touring, they knew this and played more crowd-pleasing sets!
Anyway, this is why you should care about NYC: It’s the biggest media hub on the planet, and now the band have a bunch of bad press! The NY Times article was mostly positive, but everything else has been negative or lukewarm. Let alone the press/blogosphere stuff, it’s just a LOT of fans to burn, and they spread negative word of mouth. So now that gets around, and it mostly likely influences people to not buy tickets for their shows elsewhere. That is not good for the band! You go on tour to win/keep fans, not to hemorrhage them!
“The fans just get tired of hearing the same stuff over and over again.” — Uh, let me try to get this through to you one more time, okay? One more time, and I’m done: THE FANS IN NEW YORK CITY HAVE NOT SEEN THE BAND AT ALL IN OVER NINE YEARS AND IN MANY CASES (SUCH AS MYSELF) NEVER AT ALL EVER AND SO WE ARE NOT SICK OF SEEING OLD SONGS. THE MAJORITY OF ANY AUDIENCE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL ONLY SEE YOU ONCE ON TOUR. YES, “TODAY” AND “BULLET” AND “TONIGHT” ARE NOT THE TOP PICKS FOR ME BUT ALSO PLEASE NOTE THAT THEY WERE PLAYED IN THE CRAPPY NIGHT AND THEY DID NOT MAKE MATTERS BETTER. PEOPLE WHO WERE UPSET WITH THE SHOW WERE MORE ANNOYED ABOUT NOT GETTING ALBUM CUTS, NOT SO MUCH RADIO HITS. IF YOU NOTICE, THESE TWO SHOWS DID INCLUDE THE BIGGEST HITS, SO WHY ARE YOU HARPING ON THAT? IS IT TOTALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR SOME OF YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT THERE’S A MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN THE GIGANTIC HITS AND THE DEEPLY OBSCURE RARITIES? BUT EITHER WAY, COMPLAINING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HEAR RADIO HITS AT A BIG ROCK SHOW BY A BAND BEST KNOWN FOR A LONG STRING OF RADIO HITS IS BEYOND WACK.
See, it’s in all caps too!
11/11/08 12:27 am
I’m in Chicago, Matt. You’re not getting much sympathy or deference from me about the NYC thing.
Stop writing in caps. It’s annoying, unbecoming, and doesn’t get your point across any better. Good writers write with strong words, not with a strong font.
And lighten up, it’s just a band and you and I both disagree.
11/11/08 1:56 pm
It’s nice to go to a show and hear the hits or fan favorites, which I think is a primary reason people buy tickets in the first place. Sounds as though Corgan showcased one of his defining qualities: pretentiousness.
11/11/08 3:06 pm
I saw Smashing Pumpkins a couple weeks ago when they played Neil Young’s Bridge School Benefit in the Bay Area and they pulled the same kind of shit. Almost the entire set was new songs except for the last song “Disarm,” which in kind of a bad joke was sung by Josh Groban. I enjoyed some of their set but I thought they squandered an opportunity to turn their set into something special. You don’t need to play hits to do that as shown by Wilco, who don’t really have any big hits and played a new song, or Norah Jones, who threw in a bunch of great covers. You just need to be willing to engage the audience and play something recognizable. Instead, it seems Corgan is turning insular and wrote off the crowd as not worthy of his genius.
11/11/08 7:24 pm
Isn’t it a tad more pathetic to go to a show for nostalgia than for Corgan to play new songs?
11/11/08 8:59 pm
Well, define “nostalgia.” Because there’s nothing nostalgic about me loving the Smashing Pumpkins songs that I love, and those songs start at Gish and are as recent as “GLOW” and “Superchrist.” I love those songs in this moment, many of them more so than when I first heard them as a teenager. It’s not about revisiting some memory. So it’s really more like “which of these songs are quite good?” vs. “which of them are not?” I mean, there’s plenty of recent songs I would’ve really liked to have seen them play — for example, “Seven Shades Of Black” is a terrific song, and they rarely play it. The problem with the Black Sunshine show is that it simply does not play to the strengths of the band, and if anything, emphasizes their weaknesses.
11/11/08 10:10 pm
I am shocked at how much you guys are going on about Billy Corgan!!! You paid money to see a bunch of guys and some chick….not the original lineup and you go on like this? Total fucking freaks…the lot. To be fair i must tell the tale of how i got here…Went to BV…saw a picture of Billy and thought to myself…hmm still wearing a dress…read a bit of the stinky review and decided to see what all the fuss was about…then the miles of defenses to and for what?
you guys shit your pants about Billy Corgan…wow.
11/12/08 12:39 pm
[...] the Smashing Pumpkins 20th anniversary tour lurches from one bad review to another, main man Billy Corgan has clearly decided things can’t get any worse as he invited a [...]
11/13/08 1:50 pm
Hey - you just made The Guardian. Freaky.
I was never a Pumpkins fan , but I’m sad “Set the Controls…” made for a bad cover. I’d love to see a good version of that done by anyone. It’s certainly got room for lots of interpretations.
11/14/08 9:21 am
[...] the Smashing Pumpkins reviews recently have gotten me thinking … people seem to be pissed that their set consists primarily [...]
11/14/08 12:46 pm
[...] far from complimentary. The reaction to the first night was pretty scathing, to say the least. Matthew Perpetua of Fluxblog wrote that “the few thousand bitter, heartbroken fans […] exited the United Palace as if on [...]
11/16/08 11:22 pm
I attended the “Black Sunshine” show in Boston, and for the most part I agree with Matthew. He makes many valid points. However, the smashing pumpkins are my favorite band, and always will be, so just seeing them live was good enough for me. I really wish I could have attended the 2nd ‘white crosses’ show too, but unfortunately I had a prior commitment.
The one thing I’m a little tired of are the constant accusations from the “Zeitgeist-era” fans who say crap like “you didn’t like the show just because they didn’t play songs like 1979 and Today.” What a load of crap. They are all under the assumption that most of us “long time fans” only listen to the handfuls of “hits” that SP has produced. That’s not the case at all. I like Smashing Pumpkins music in general. Period. I pay good money and go to smashing pumpkins concerts to hear/see smashing pumpkins songs. Not kazoos, silly jokes, pink floyd art extravaganzas, and barely recognizable alternate versions of songs. Not to mention that the show was barely 2.5 hours long (with only about 1.5 hours of actual SP music). That’s not what I signed up for… Especially for a 20th anniversary tour celebrating SMASHING PUMPKINS music… and the whole thing with the “split” tour which forces me to by TWO FULL PRICE TICKETS in order to get the ‘complete package’ was very discouraging. I knew I was missing half the show already by only going to one concert, but I feel like I missed more than that because of the wasted time being experimental. On any other tour I could have shrugged it off… or if they had just ended with a “Bang”, I would have been much more forgiving. But on a tour which is exclusively for the pumpkins and their 20 years of music I felt they could have done a better job. With the THOUSANDS of songs they have they could have EASILY pulled off 2 completely different 3-hour set-lists for each venue to truly display the magnitude of the Smashing Pumpkins - and truly celebrate 20 years of fantastic music.
And I also agree with Matthew about the acoustic material. All the hundreds of acoustic bits that Billy has been pumping out lately are OK… however, NOT ONE can even hold a candle to previous acoustic work. That’s just a fact in my honest opinion… for example, ballads like “soothe”, “daydream”, “Stumbeline” and “to sheila” are timeless, beautiful portrayals of genius. Nothing acoustic that Billy writes now even remotely emulates the serenity of those pieces (and many others). The “Pumpkins re-birth” was a dream come true for me, and I continue to support them in every way. I buy their records, DVDs, and concert tickets… and I always will. But the fact remains that they will never be the powerhouse they once were.
But I gotta say, I watched the video of the fan heckling Billy in NY, and it was hilarious. Especially the part where Billy is like “Oh, by the way, I like that song you wrote… you know, “Take your dick out of my ass, and put it in my mouth”? That’s a great song, REALLY popular in Europe!”. Greatest line ever.
Long live the Smashing Pumpkins.
11/20/08 1:32 pm
No credit even for “Eye”?
11/20/08 5:25 pm
[...] setlist choices, awful-sounding music, and confounding sartorial decisions mixed with heavy doses of audience mockery: These are the [...]
11/20/08 5:29 pm
(1) smashing pumpkins were (briefly) a PRETTY GOOD band. never great, definitely not worth discussing in this depth (2) most of their original fans have grown up and sold at least most of their CDs *see Weezer (3) those who have not followed this path are either acting out of nostalgia (somewhat forgivable) or have super, super poor taste. (4) there is nothing “alternative” about joining forces with Target to release exclusive CDs (not that “alternative rock” was ever a valid label to begin with). (5) dudeman is 42 and he still puts on that pathetic, shiny “zero” shirt.
11/20/08 8:16 pm
[...] that the Smashing Pumpkins reunion tour has become. Numerous reports from the road - Stereogum, Fluxblog, and most recently Pitchfork - all chime in with the same story - Billy Corgan’s band [...]
11/20/08 8:45 pm
Basically, Corgan can be summed up in two words: “split personality”
it defines everything the man does, the very fundamental coolness of the pumpkins music lies in the inherent dichotomy of combining heavy as fuck jams, and very emotional/evocative melodies and lyrics. Case and point, take a song like “Here Is No Why”; you get a sentimental line “to forgotten faces and faded loves”, immediately followed by an absolutely SHIT HOT guitar solo and jimmy pummeling the living day light out of his kit.
Essentially, I think it is fair to say that (and let me state now that I am not a so called “Corgan Apologist” and I admit some of his work is trash) when he is good, my god, is he a fucking genius. Usually, this genius comes out when he effectively balances the contrasting elements of his music and pulls in some insanely gorgeous bassist (just kidding, but come on, Paz? wow was she beautiful). The blogger, in my opinion, could not be more on point when he calls the man out for his new formula for metal songs which is as follows:
“Jimmy, take out that drum rudiment method book, flip to a random page, and uhhh play it on your rack toms for the next 20 minutes… ok yeah that is perfect, now that I have reduced one of the best drummers of this generation to a fucking Casio, time to mask the blatant lack of emotion, melody, tune, genuine lyrical sentiment, and direction that my current songs are marred with, turn my big muff pedal up fucking all the way and play some minor key progression of power chords while I rant about gothic imagery or kafka or something for a while.”
Am I being a bit harsh? probably… United States is a decent enough tune, but you get the point. Once again the blogger brings up a valid point that an artist best suits themselves and their fans typically when they play to their strengths. The critics here seem to think that this automatically means you need to be Hannah Montana. Pink Floyd played twenty minute drugged out noise jams BECAUSE THAT WAS THEIR MOTHER FUCKING STRENGTH! Sonic Youth hold their guitars up to their amps and create otherwordly noises because that is what they do best, they are masters at the craft and people enjoy coming to see them do this, they enjoy seeing them push the boundaries in that realm. Would you claim that Sonic Youth was challenging their audience if they came out and played Coldplay cover songs for 40 minutes? I doubt it, you’d probably be pissed, understandably so, just like this blogger and I am. Corgan’s strength is, among other things, a great sense of melody and tension/release, and solid lyrics. He is completely allowed to eschew his hit songs and experiment, all we are asking for is that he use his natural musical talents to his advantage, so that not only are we the audience awed by his considerable talents, but also he maxs out his own artistic potential instead of settling for singles that are released on guitar hero 3.
I’ve said far too much. A large contingent of everything he did up through Zwan was wonderful, the Future Embrace had a few moments, and unfortunately… well just go back to the top of the comment and start reading again that basically summarizes it hahahaha thank you and goodnight!
11/20/08 9:13 pm
“He’s still the same petty bully who blew his top over Stephen Malkmus’s supposed Pumpkins “diss” on “Range Life” and whine about how “nobody wakes up in the morning humming a Pavement song” (so much for Corgan The Anti-Chart-Pop-Rebel).”
Funny, because I think I’ve woken up in the morning singing “Rage Life” more than I’ve woken up singing any Smashing Pumpkins song. What a douche, for realz.
11/20/08 10:10 pm
[...] audience November 20th, 2008 by jjb tags: pitchfork, amusing, criticism Poor setlist choices, awful-sounding music, and confounding sartorial decisions mixed with heavy doses of audience mockery: These are the [...]
11/20/08 11:43 pm
honestly, I really enjoy the new pumpkins show. They did a similar thing with heavy metal machine in san francisco last year, and i really liked it. I think the Pumpkins do a great job of mixing arty noise with the classics in a similar way to sonic youth. I hate how pitchfork et al dislike the last album, because I love it, and think G.L.O.W is one of the most refreshing rock songs i’ve heard in a while. Sure Billy can be pompous, but he can because he’s a genius and is extremely talenting not only at face melting guitar solos, but meticulously constructed pop gems.
11/21/08 2:02 am
[...] setlist choices, awful-sounding music, and confounding sartorial decisions mixed with heavy doses of audience mockery: These are the [...]
11/21/08 12:42 pm
[...] note: Sample reactions from the Smashing Pumpkins tour: Rolling Stone, Hipsters United, Pitchfork, Fluxblog, Stereogum. Bookmark It Hide Sites $$(’div.d1430′).each( function(e) { [...]
12/13/08 10:45 pm
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
While your breakdown of the Billy Corgan Show was much clearer and less emotionally driven than my own, it was nice to read that I’m not the only person who saw them and felt jilted, abused, and left out in the cold.
Billy’s minions ate me alive on my review of their Denver show (denverpost.com/reverb) and my companion blog (breedavies.blogspot.com).
Wah, wah waaaah.